Biz Talk with Heather Davis of Waterstone Counseling

Heather Davis, a Certified Life Coach with Waterstone Counseling explains how she helps her clients bridge the gap between where they are, and where they want to be in life.

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Read the Full Interview Below


Sarah: Hey, hey. Good morning! We’re rocking and rolling this morning, we’ve got our coffee. And we have an absolutely fantastic guest, somebody that is going to give us some true wisdom today. So, let’s get started.

Glyna: Good morning. Good morning. You’re just flipping people everywhere.

Sarah: I just did a cartwheel.

Glyna: Heather’s like, “Just leave me in my spot please.” Don’t be flipping me-

Heather Davis: I’m okay.

Glyna: Well good morning everybody it is a great day in the Fusion One lounge. I’m Glyna Humm, and around the square here we have our other marketing guru’s, Sarah Gilliland and Kelsi Nicholson. We’re having so much fun talking to business people and just getting tips, and tricks for all of us to use. And before we get started Sarah, will you pop up our broadcast, please?

Sarah: I would be glad to. Okay, so don’t forget. Every single week we go live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter. You can always subscribe to our awesome podcast, Marketing and a Mic, and follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn. And don’t forget about our YouTube channel, woo-hoo! Let me tell you, every single week we’re putting out brand new, fresh videos. Good content. All digital marketing, business-related stuff you got to know about. So, check that out.

Glyna: Yes. And today we are so excited about our guest. I’m going to tell you, this could not be more timely. With all the stress we’re all going through, or have been going through this whole year. We’ve got COVID, we’ve got elections, we’ve got family, we have, just everything. This lady has the answers to solve all our problems, so I want to go ahead and introduce our awesome guest today, Heather Davis with Waterstone Counseling, good morning!

Heather Davis: Good morning ladies, how are y’all?

Glyna: We’re doing great, we are so excited to have you here today.

Heather Davis: Thank you for asking.

Glyna: Huh?

Heather Davis: Thank you for asking, I am so excited about it.

Sarah: Yeah, let me tell you, you bring such a nice energy so we’re really excited that you’re with us this morning.

Glyna: Yes, so listen up everybody. She’s got some great info here. So, let’s just go ahead and get started, Heather. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about Waterstone Counseling and some of the services that you offer?

Heather Davis: Absolutely, well Waterstone Counseling is a counseling and consulting organization. And I am a Board Certified Christian Mental Health Coach, which basically means that I fill that gap between what the counselors do, and what you could find in your job services, or in the church. So I’m kind of right in that middle. And I like to focus on what are people’s needs and their goals? So-

Sarah: Perfect.

Heather Davis: We have a lot of services that we do, so I’m sure we’ll talk about them besides just coaching. But we have some really fun tools that we can use too.

Glyna: That’s so awesome because you always like to say, I’m the person, you’re here and you want to get to here. And I’m the person that can help you do that. So, that’s in every aspect of our life, so we’re really excited to dig a little bit deeper into everything. I want to go ahead and welcome some people this morning that are watching. We have Roxie Kelley, who I know you know.

Heather Davis: Good morning Roxie!

Glyna: We have Melissa Dixon. And Cindy Edmunds, and LaVon Chaney. So I thought that-

Heather Davis: Girl crew!

Glyna: Thought you might recognize a few of those names.

Heather Davis: Yes!

Sarah: Yes, we love our morning folks. That’s for sure. So let’s talk about this a little bit deeper. So what areas do you specialize in, or what types of situations do you help coach through?

Heather Davis: Well, I specialize in what I call life recovery and addictions. So you may think, well, I don’t have addictions and life is going okay. And I’m not in recovery so that would mean I don’t need life recovery. But really life recovery starts with the fact that when we were little, we really had this picture in our mind of this is what it was going to be like when I grew up. And I was going to do all of these things, and then something happens and that is not the life that you have. And so instead of living in bitterness and resentment, or being upset, or feeling less-than about yourself for the rest of your life, we call that life recovery. So, that’s kind of what Glyna was alluding to, that this is where you are. This is what has gotten us to this point, in therapy we kind of go back and look at why this happened. And what are these patterns. I don’t do that. I’m a coach. I don’t really care what happened before. I want you to tell me what you think are the most important things that got you to this point, and from that, we’re going to say, this is where you want to go and then we’re going to build a bridge. And from the bridge, that’s how we learn what the resources are we need. If there are any emotional tools that are lacking, or if we need to work on conflict resolution if you’re afraid of conflict. If you’ve never really been angry and been allowed to express what anger looks like. So, that’s really what that does. I work with families, individuals, teams, and I love it. I love working in groups, and especially with small groups. Just a couple of people.

Kelsi: I guess that’s what really separates you from, you’re not considered a therapist. You’re a coach because you don’t focus on the past.

Heather Davis: Correct.

Kelsi: Focusing on the future, and how do we get there.

Heather Davis: Exactly. It’s a completely different set of licensing so the code of ethics for a therapist, which at Waterstone, I work right alongside a therapist. I work alongside Heather Parker, the two Heather’s. She is the therapist, and so that’s the line that she works in. She does a lot of the past and the EMDR, which is the eye movement desensitization regiment. And it’s wonderful for working with trauma. So she works through that with them and allows their brain to come out of the traumatic response and then once they stabilized and they’re in a place where like, “Okay, I’m ready to really start focusing on my future.” Then I tag-team and I come in and work for the next part with them.

Glyna: Perfect. Wow. So you get all the resources.

Heather Davis: Well, that’s what we like to do is really, it’s so hard it seems like if you need a chiropractor, you have to go over here. If you need an endocrinologist you go here. If you need some health things you have to go to the gym. What we wanted to do was, everything had to do with your central nervous system and the way your body, mind, and soul work. We wanted to be able to provide that. So, that’s really where we focused our certifications and our licenses. And really our philosophy for how we want to do it, so.

Glyna: Perfect, and what I really love too about you is that you can work with individuals as you mentioned. But you can work with groups, and that includes businesses. And one of my favorite things that you do is the career, what is it called? The career…

Heather Davis: Career Direct.

Glyna: Career direct tool.

Heather Davis: Yeah.

Glyna: And tell us a little bit about that because I love this assessment. And it’s really great for businesses and the people that they’re wanting to hire and see how they fit. So tell us a little bit about that tool.

Sarah: And we all got that assessment.

Glyna: Yeah, we all have taken it. I love it.

Sarah: We’ve all been assessed, prior to employment.

Heather Davis: Before we started our little practice, I kind of felt embarrassed. I said, “Okay, I know y’all don’t know, but I feel like I know you really well.” Because each of the employees that work for Fusion One Marketing, Glyna and Rob the owners, they pay for these potential candidates to do the assessment. And so what the employer does, is they give me a job description. And then they give me the person’s name and email. And then I’ll send them an online assessment. And they take this assessment, which was made by Crown Financial Ministries. It’s maybe 45 minutes or so. But literally, it is, I believe one of Glyna’s employees calls it a soul assessment because it basically goes into the design of how you were made. Not just your personality, which is what most employers get to is your personalities. But it also goes into the abilities that you have, what are the supporting skills and mindset that you bring in. And then my favorite one is what motivates you, and what kind of environment you need for work. So, if you have a flexible environment and you have someone who needs it to be the same every single time, I can look at that job description and look at what their assessment shows, and then I can talk to those owners or those employers through what it’s looking like. What the next level of interview questions needs to be for this person so they can decide if it’s a fit for us. There have been times with Glyna and Rob especially where I’m like, “I just don’t see this as a fit for y’all” and I have to say this delicately as possible. Or, if there’s been someone that that employer has hired without doing the service and then I meet them, and there’s a disconnect. That’s where I have that responsibility to go back to the employer who’s working with me as a client in some way to let them know that I have that check in my spirit that something is not going to work with this person and then we can do the assessment after the fact. And it kind of always reveals it, it’s the neatest tool ever.

Glyna: It is.

Heather Davis: So diverse.

Glyna: It reveals-

Sarah: It helps not only the individual but the employer. To kind of help them with their, what you say, some soul searching. And even career searching, to be like, “Hey this is kind of what I want, but really may not be the most suitable for me and my personality.”

Heather Davis: Absolutely, I’ve actually worked with companies here in Birmingham that use it as an off-boarding. If they know that this employee is not going to work with them, because it’s a wrong fit in the culture, or it’s a wrong fit within the work team. Because that happens sometimes. Then they’ll send them to be as part of their exit package and let me work with them to get them ready for what should the next steps be. And it’s amazing how many great descriptors come out of that assessment to help the person re-tool their resume to put actual true things about them, instead of trying to build towards a job bu actually described them. And help the employer that’s looking for something in an employee look at it and go, “Okay, yeah. That’s why I want to call them. I want to call them.” So, it’s fun. I love it.

Sarah: Yeah, for sure. So you also have some other tools that can kind of help with personal growth. And one of them is the enneagram, am I saying that correctly?

Heather Davis: Enneagram.

Sarah: Enneagram. I’m sorry. Enneagram coaching. So, what exactly is that? Because that’s new to me. I know that Glyna and Kelsi have heard of that but what’s that about?

Heather Davis: Okay, so enneagram means ennea is Greek for nine and gram is a model. This has been around for hundreds of years, but in the last probably 20 years it has really hit the mainstream in America. It’s been all over. But within the last, as I said, 20 years in America. It’s become huge, and within the last 10 years, I would say, even the churches are starting to use it. What it is, is nine personality types that are all number neutral. So, it doesn’t matter if you’re a one, doesn’t mean you’re little and the nine is the biggest. But it’s one through nine, and it shows you how your personality is part of the design that you were given at birth. But it’s also going to show, what are the things that you’re going to struggle with? What are the things that you’re going to need? So, in a work environment, what are you going to be longing for? So, when you have a work team that is fine until there’s a conflict, this would be a great thing to do with them. It’s so much fun, it’s just a three-hour workshop. And it is incredible to see how you change your perspective because you are perceiving what they did from your personality, and not realizing that that was their personality and they were trying to get something. You may not have those words to articulate it, but that’s what’s happening when we engage with people sometimes we’re trying to get our needs met, and we’re afraid to tell them what our fear is, or our needs. So, we’re just going about it in a way that has worked previously. Sometimes that doesn’t work now.

Kelsi: So, explain to us how the enneagram test allows individuals to get on track and then stay on track.

Heather Davis: Sure, okay, so the enneagram, I’ll just give you an example, there are nine numbers. I’m a seven, so if you look at the enneagram, the seven is what they call the happy optimist. Go figure. I mean, come on. If you can’t find a silver lining, you already are in heaven and it’s underneath your feet, okay? There’s a way to be happy in every situation from my personality’s point of view. Also, what I do as a seven, there are attributes that each one of us has. So, as a seven the attribute that we radiate to this world is joy. Makes sense, right? So, it was so sweet Sarah said that I had this positive energy. And I was like, “Awe.” It’s joy! But that’s the thing, it comes from inside and it just naturally oozes out. So, that’s what a seven has. Okay, so as a seven when I’m in a healthy place it’s going to look joyful. But as I get down into the part of my personality and everybody has it, that’s average. Then I’ll switch from being joyful to trying to get my needs met through using my personality, which means I could tell jokes, be funny, be light of the party. But I’m just trying to fill up a hole in me that is saying I’m less than. And when we get all the way down into the average to unhealthy portion. That’s when I feel like I’m alone, and nobody’s for me, and I’m isolated. And that’s where, in my personality, that’s where addictions would come from because the opposite of joy would be gluttony. And so, if I’m not satisfied in who I am and how I’m living, and I migrated down towards, this is my need and I’m not getting it met, and I’m in that defensive place, I’m going to be looking for joy anywhere. Anything to fill the hole that I’m feeling because a seven hates emotional trauma and pain. We don’t like sadness, ooh. At all. So, there are attributes. So, you’ll learn about that. You’ll also learn what the guardrails are. So, you can start seeing different things at levels, whereas at a four before, if I didn’t know it, I wouldn’t have recognized what it looks like when I stop telling people the truth about what I’m dealing with, and I’m just telling them the good things. Now I know that when I get in that pattern I’m at a four. And I need to put some guardrails up, take care of myself, and then I can be my better self. If not, I know that I can go quickly down into this place of self-soothing, that’s not really appropriate. So, but we can do that with all of them. And it’s so much fun, because you’re like, “Oh, I’ve been there. I’ve been there. I don’t ever want to go there.” And then you’re like, “Okay.” Some people call it maturation, some people call it sanctification. But it really, it’s a process of learning who you are, what you have as strengths, and how you can use your strengths, not to get what you want, but to help others. That’s when you show up in that healthy part.

Glyna: Cool.

Kelsi: Raising self-awareness on a massive scale.

Heather Davis: Oh, absolutely. And can you imagine if you did that in your organization? The self-awareness that you would have, the team awareness. And then the culture that you’re trying to provide for your employees and to get your company where you want it, it’s unbelievable. It takes things out of just conflict into, hey, how are we going to fix this for the long term? And I think that makes people feel safe.

Kelsi: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sarah: Yeah, I think that helps so much with what you talked about, the self-sabotage aspect of it. Of, we have these almost triggers and we react a certain way and then not fully making the connection of why that is. But I think it’s so valuable that you talked about the joy aspect when it’s not present, it’s like a trigger and some of the things that we react. So it’s so good at kind of making that connection so that you don’t self-sabotage again.

Heather Davis:

Yes, yes. That’s the connection if you can make the connection from self-sabotage as you said, and the trigger. So, if you know what your tendency is and then you can start to recognize those triggers, you can’t control a trigger, but you can already plan ahead of how you’re going to respond when this happens. And so, for me, that’s the best part. Sorry, I have a tickle, not COVID.

Sarah: What do we call it, what did you call it, frogmouth?

Kelsi: Frog throat.

Heather Davis: Frog in my throat?

Sarah: Frog throat.

Heather Davis: I wish I sounded like Demi Moore when I had a frog throat.

Glyna: Well we have some other people joining us this morning, we have Gaye Chambers. She said, “Heather rocks.” Yes she does. Gayle Mason. And Melissa says that she knows she’s a three, Melissa Dixon. So she’s had the enneagram.

Heather Davis: Oh, she is. She is absolutely a three. She kills it.

Glyna: And then-

Heather Davis: Threes are called “the achiever”.

Glyna: She’s an achiever. She’s definitely, achiever or overachiever. I would say that-

Heather Davis: You know there’s good in all of us. Do you want to know, for threes, their attribute is hope. What it comes down to, when they get into the unhealthy, that is deceit. We all have something good, we all have something bad. But I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed Melissa anywhere past the average.

Glyna: No, no.

Sarah: Glyna, have you ever taken the test?

Glyna: I have not, but it feels like I need to.

Heather Davis: It’s so much fun!

Sarah: This has gotten me so curious, I want to take it too.

Heather Davis: I even do it for pre-marital counseling for couples. And it teaches them so much about what’s going to happen when they get pushed on different roles, different communication styles when they get stressed about work. So that you don’t take it personally if somebody recluses. For me as a seven, I’m such an outgoing person. But when I get hurt I immediately go home. I’m like, I’m taking my toys, I’m going home, I’m going to sit with my dog. I have to figure it out. Well, a lot of personalities can be misread because they have this outward appearance and then they have this inward that they’re dealing with. So, I think it’s great for couples. Even if you’re in trouble in your marriage, this would be a fun way to get some of the conflicts out on the table and not look at them like it’s this person’s fault, it’s just this is how they’re made. So, you got to accept that about them and stop arguing about the way they’re made. Argue about the issues. Makes sense?

Glyna: You have all these awesome tools, but that’s where your coaching part comes in. You understand them, you understand how to read them and you understand how to use them to help everybody. So, that’s huge. And, I know that you do because we’ve worked with you on several things. Roxie Kelley works with a lot of corporate people. She said, she wants to know, she said, “What has been the biggest turn around with any of the corporate clients that you’ve worked with?”

Heather Davis: Biggest turnaround. Feel free, if you want to share anything Glyna. But…

Glyna: Well, I think that I love the career assessment thing, Roxie. That would be first. And the enneagram is new to me, so I think that would be something second that you would need to take, but as a group, all of us had the assessment. And Heather even, we met with our whole group, and she went through everybody’s assessment. Just to talk about our strengths, and weaknesses and how we could all work together. And that was an awesome session, that was a couple years ago. That gave us all the ah-ha moments like, “Oh! That’s why Glyna always does this that way. That’s why Rob is just as nurturing or whatever, but he has a different way of doing it.” And how to react to all of us. So, I would say the biggest turn around is that you can help the culture of a company come from all these different pieces down to one group, and how you can work together, the best. If that makes sense. At least that’s what you did for us.

Heather Davis: I think that’s probably it. When someone is in a place of leadership, whether it’s over a team or even when they manage all of these people and they’ve got projects that they’re having to do, it can get to where everybody feels like an isolated tower. They do what they do, and when they need help they go to the manager. Well, what I can do is help that manager learn that person. Learn how they’re working in the team and then, as you said, make the culture to where they don’t feel so isolated. And especially with COVID, I mean most of us are working remotely, at least part-time. So, there is that connection part, to where you know the person and the way that they’ve been made so that you can nurture that. Not just their professional performance, but their personal development so that they want to stay at this company because “I’m not going to get somewhere else”. So, I think that really helps culture. It also helps the person know this is the company, this is the type of company, they invest in their people. Because they’ll learn as much as the employer will about them. So, it’s not really one-sided. “The employer pays for it, so they get all of this information”. It’s very two-sided, it helps with the leadership and the development of the employee but it also helps you to get the culture the way you want to. I know for Glyna and Rob, there was a specific culture they wanted to set. And we went in with that mindset, this is what we’re looking for, this is where we’re going to go, and these are the type of people we want so that we ensure a certain level of quality that we never, ever go beneath. Our integrity’s never going to be questioned by our employees because we have vetted them. And so, those types of objectives from the employer really help me to set the path for where we’re going to go and how we’re going to get there.

Glyna: And it’s very important too, another thing that you helped us with is, what is this person, their capabilities? In other words, don’t ask them to do a job that they’re not made to do because that just causes all kinds of problems. What are their strengths? What do they like to do? So, that was eye-opening to me and I know Sarah and Kelsi. We all talk about a lot of times I’ll be like, “I need to look back at that assessment and just see if this piece of our work because it’s always changing, would even fit with that person. Would Kelsi thrive in that position?” Because you want to enjoy work as much as possible, it’s still work but you don’t want to be banging your head against the wall.

Sarah: And it also helped with motivators. Once somebody is hired it’s so good to know how to keep them motivated, and everybody is so different in that category. Some people feel like I need that constant, “Good job, you’re doing well, I’m so glad you did this.” While others are like, “Just let me stay in my lane and I don’t need all the fluff. I can just get my…” Do you know what I mean? And you just realize how valuable that is, because after all once they’re hired you want to keep them motivated.

Heather Davis: Right.

Glyna: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Heather Davis: I totally agree. And that’s one of my favorite parts about that career direct, is that it will actually reveal that. The funny thing is, one time there was a person who was trying to get a job and it was a sales position basically, lots of rejection. You got to get through about nine or 10 no’s before you get a yes and this person’s biggest fear was rejection. Well, that is a huge eye-opener for me when I’m vetting someone that, okay, they’re not going to want to do the 10 no’s. They’re going to do much better in an environment where they’re working with someone who is already a customer and you are developing a relationship with them and then you could upsell them. That’s a different role. So, a completely different role than a salesperson. Or, my other favorite one is, sometimes you’ll get a person who’s not motivated by money. Now, that is usually typically not your salesperson. Most people are goal-oriented. They like to get a goal, and they like to be rewarded for their goal. So, little things like that, and then we can work with that employer. They’re like, “But I really want this person in the environment.” Okay, well then this would be a good way to use them with the new structure if that makes sense.

Kelsi: No, it does.

Sarah: Rob says his assessment was so far off.

Glyna: Whatever.

Kelsi: Did you cheat, Rob?

Glyna: Yeah.

Sarah: He probably can’t handle the truth. Just kidding.

Heather Davis: That’s the hard part, is sometimes I have to deliver things to them that they’re not aware of. And-

Kelsi: Like they have a tendency to be a murderer or something?

Heather Davis: Hey, you know who you are. There are people out there!

Glyna: It was funny because we were on our way to Indiana or someplace, so we put Heather on speakerphone, just for something to do, to go through both of our assessments. And he was like, “Do I do that? Do I do that?” He goes, “I sound like an asshole.” I said, “No, you just know what you want and you know how to get there.” He goes, “Is that true?” So it was just so funny and so cute. But, and I was the same way. I pretty much had it down the line, but there were a few things that surprised me. But anyway, the test is fun. All of these tools are so fun. But the most important thing is that you can coach them through how to make them work. So, if you’re an individual and you want to come and meet with you, what is the initial process that you do with clients? And do you have a frequency that you recommend, that people come every so often? I know it’s probably different for every tool that you have, but.

Heather Davis: Yeah. Really, most people come to see me and they’re like, “Okay, I’ve got these goals.” And they’ll tell me what their goals are. And I’m like, “Okay, that’s wonderful.” I’ll give them the online assessment to do for the enneagram, which will take them about 30 minutes. They usually have done that before they come in, or after the first session. The first session I meet with them is usually an hour, an hour and a half. Just depending on what they can put into their time schedule and we call that the intake. It’s just an industry term. After that, after I’ve heard what their goals and we kind of see if we’re a good fit, personality, and the way I articulate things. Because I like to use a lot of word pictures and tell stories. And some people are like, “Cut to the chase.” I’m not your girl. I like to use 10 words when you could use four. It’s okay. But if we’re a good fit, and I know what your goals are, and we look at the enneagram. Then I’ll kind of show you what the enneagram reveals about what it’ll look like to get to those goals. And in that process is when we figure out what the self-sabotaging is. What are maybe some of those internal thoughts that you believe about yourself that are holding you back? Almost like that, some people I call it the internal critic. What you hear when you’re trying to do something new because all of those things we’ve got to address to get you there. So, some people are like, “Well, I want to come once a month.” And I’m like, “That’s great.” So, when they come in I will give them, we’ll talk through what they’ve been working on, where they’re at, any realizations. Then there’ll be homework. And the homework that they do, they do on their own. And then they come back in and we process it. And it’s like, I’m holding them accountable to keep walking, keep doing it. But they can touch base with me by phone or text in between sessions and it’s not a charge. That’s the difference between a coach and a therapist again. Because my code of ethics and my licensure allows me to have personal relationship outside of the office space. So my malpractice doesn’t just cover the office space. It covers what I’m doing with them, and the whole process. So, that’s pretty great to me. And then when they come back, we assess. Sometimes you’ve had a crappy week and you didn’t get it done and I have had some clients starting a business that they want to come once a week. Or they want to come once every two weeks. And then there’s some that are like, “Once a month is fine, but can I check in on the phone and text?” Absolutely. Budget is never going to be an issue for me because I’m a single mom and I don’t think that just because the resources sometimes I lack might be finances. It’s not going to keep me from getting to where I want to be. And so, that’s what I try to do, is work within the person’s financial budget, and then give them the service that I would want. And so I go a little bit above and beyond what the expectation is just so that they never feel like, if it was money, or of it was time, or if it was belief in themself that was their lacking resource, that that’s what kept them from getting to their goal.

Glyna: Perfect. That’s powerful.

Sarah: That’s good. Do you want to take that question from LaVon. Or, I can pop it up here. She wants to know if you’d recommend individuals go through the therapy part first before they see you for life coaching?

Heather Davis: Well, that depends on the person. I will be quite honest and say, most men hate therapy, okay. The idea of going to sit with somebody and have to share things that they may not want to share is not so great. A lot of threes don’t like going to therapy because the way they look at themselves is an accumulation of everything that’s happened. So, good, bad, or ugly, this is who I am and I’m going forward. So, a person who has a mindset that can be open in coaching and say, “Yeah, in the past this has really been the one hurdle that I can’t overcome.” If a person can do that, and we can look at that pattern and I can go, “Oh, okay. Well, tell me a time when that happened.” And if they can just tell me the time, and we can process the time, then we don’t have to go all the way back and do the therapy for that. If we find that when they get to that place where it’s like, “Yeah this is has happened several, several times. And it always stops me, I’m paralyzed when this happens.” Then we make the determination. Is this something where you want to go back? So, it’s not necessarily that you’ve got to do therapy first to get a coach, because a lot of times you didn’t know that you needed therapy. And sometimes you’re like, “Okay, look. If you think I need a therapist, I’m going to tell you to work harder.” And I’ve had people tell me that. Work harder, because this is not therapeutic. I want to go forward, I want to take today and move on. And that’s fine. We just have to get you the right resources. And sometimes it means we’ll do a workshop. And we’ll do a little bit of intensive work. But, it’s okay. We can work with anybody. It doesn’t have to be, you’ve been graduated from therapy. You don’t need that. There’s no prerequisite.

Sarah: There’s another service that you provide, it is, I’m going to see if I can get this right, which is Micro Current NeuroFeedback.

Heather Davis: Correct.

Sarah: Ding, ding, ding. So, what is that exactly?

Heather Davis: Well, this is a process that puts an incredibly small microcurrent into different portions of your brain. So, I’ve had people say, “Oh, electric shock.” And I’m like-

Glyna: That’s what I tell people! I am just kidding.

Heather Davis: Electric shock is on this standalone and all the way over here would be microcurrent. So, to give people a visual, I typically say, do you remember the old stim and TENS units that we had when you hurt a muscle? And it would go and it would put just a little bit of a current in. Or if you go to a chiropractor, and they do that, where you lay down and they put those on your back, and it turns up. Well, what we do is kind of similar to that. We’re going to have leads, and we put two as reference leads and they go right on the front, on your mandible. If you have TMJ we just use the mastoid, which is a bone right behind your ear. But you’ll have a reference lead, which sends me back the signal. You’ll have a ground on the back of your neck that says, this is where the current is going to stay. And then I’ll have to active leads. Those active leads are the ones where the actual current’s going in. So based on the symptoms that you have, whether it’s ADD, anxiety, depression, sleep issues like apnea or insomnia, restless leg syndrome, PTSD, stroke injuries, or if you had a concussion. We do a lot of work with that. In the areas of the brain that you are struggling with. And then we do these little currents, so it’s 20 seconds of this tiny little current, and that night, your brain starts to reset. It’ll go back to the way it was before the injury, before the trauma, before this response. Almost like autonomic responses, it just happens, I didn’t mean for this to happen but he said this, and I responded this way. This gives us that chance to separate from it and it retrains our brain. And it’s fascinating.

Glyna: It is.

Kelsi: Really fascinating. So, does it kind of work essentially kind of like a massage? Where the masseuse works all those toxins out, and then overnight it kind of just comes out of your body?

Heather Davis: That is exactly, I mean great parallel. Because we’ve got these ruts, and the more often you do something in your brain, those neural paths get deeper and deeper. So just like the rest of our body that gets metabolic waste, there’s metabolic waste in our brain. And so as those ruts get really deep, then it’s harder and harder for them to make a change because that waste will get on it. So when we put that current in there, it lifts that waste up and then that’s why we have people really drink a lot of water that day, just like when we get a massage and they’re like, “Don’t forget your water.” Drink a lot of water that day and I always tell people, treat yourself to a very good meal. Good proteins, good clean vegetables, and a nice cup of coffee at night, decaf if you need it, but something that just soothes you, whatever is your happy. But yeah, it’s a wonderful gift. If you want, we do specials for Christmas. If someone wanted to give things like that as a Christmas present. Because self-care is the thing that we forgot as business owners and women. It’s very difficult for us to manage that. So this would be something that they could try, and see if it works for them. I’ve had people get off of depression medicine, anxiety medicine. Not need to take their medicine to go to sleep at night. Have gone from prescription down to taking melatonin. So, it’s amazing what it can do if you just allow your brain to reset.

Kelsi: Wow.

Heather Davis: I know. It’s so cool.

Glyna: We’re all like, “Hmm. I wonder what she could do for me?”

Heather Davis: So cool. I have clients that are eight years old that are stressed out beyond belief, and their anxiety levels are so high. And they’ll come in, and we’ll do this and within three weeks they can take tests at school, they’re not afraid. Of course, I talk to them the whole time. I’m not quiet. So I’m kind of coaching them and talking to them, finding out what’s the issues. But, it’s fascinating to me. I think my oldest client is 90. 85, 90, something like that.

Glyna: So, if somebody’s going to do those types of sessions with you, what do you recommend as far as how many should they do? Is there a set amount, or?

Heather Davis: It’s going to vary for each person. You can do them individually. It costs a little bit more to do them individually but, typically if you buy a package of 10. Through Christmas we’re going to a special where if you pre-pay for the package it’s $900 for 10. So that’s 90 dollars a session.

Glyna: Yup.

Heather Davis: If you just pay along the way, it’s 120 dollars a session. So you get about a 30% savings by pre-paying.

Glyna: Wow. That’s huge!

Heather Davis: Yeah. And usually the first two or three, you become very self-aware of things. I’ve had clients leave and say, “I think my eyes got better.” And I’m like, “Well you’re just, the brain fog is what’s lifting.” But they think their eyes are better. Some of my clients come in and go, “Oh, is that a new painting?” And I’m like, “No, that’s been there three years.” But because they’ve had this tunnel vision of trying to get through their life, once you remove that then they can start to take in other things. The emotional toll on your brain goes down. So, they can become more productive in other ways. So, usually by the first time you’ll tell me you got the best night of sleep you’ve ever had. The second time you’re like, “Like a baby.” I’m not frustrated with people, people will do the same stupid thing and I can look at them and go, “Uh-huh.” And then by the third time people are like, “Okay, there’s something to this.” And I’m like, “I know, right.” But usually, we’ll do it once a week. And then about five to six weeks in, then we’ll stretch it. And we’ll go once every two weeks. And then if you can maintain your results at once every two weeks, then we just keep it there. If you want to stretch again, then we can go back once every three, or once every four weeks. And then people can just maintain from there. And they’ll just call me and go, “Hey, I know it’s been forever but can I get an appointment.” And they’ll just do another one. So, at that point, after you’ve done your whole package, if you want to do the package, then we just do 100 dollars per session after that. Or you can continue to buy at that package rate. It’s your choice, and get 10 dollars extra. But it’s really one of those things where I don’t think you have to do it every week after you do the first couple to get yourself reset. But it’s one of the things that I know once I go past a month, I’m like, “Okay. Hit me.” Need to refresh.

Kelsi: Get the brain juice.

Heather Davis: Yeah, got some brain crap that needs to go.

Glyna: That’s so interesting. That’s amazing. So Gayle’s wanting to know, is anything covered by insurance?

Heather Davis: Okay, the way we work insurance. Some do, Marketplace does not. Just so you know, if you’ve got Marketplace it does not cover it. But, if you have a diagnosis from any type of physician. Whether it’s ADD, general anxiety, which they would almost give anybody general anxi- I shouldn’t say it like that.

Glyna: We all have general anxiety. That’s everybody.

Heather Davis: You just need a diagnosis from a physician. Just in the billing codes, they’ll have that code. You can sign a release and they send us the form that says this is the diagnosis and then what we do, is we put that on your treatment plan. Okay so, it’ll say, biofeedback, and then it’ll say the diagnosis from your doctor. We do not accept insurance, but what happens is, if you clarify that with your insurance beforehand, then you can just turn that in for reimbursement. And they may pay the whole thing, and they may pay part. I’ve had several clients who they’ve paid it all. And I’ve had several clients that were like, we’re only going to have to pay half. And it’s up to them to decide that. But you can always ask them before you ever do it, what diagnosis they need. Because you probably a diagnosis that would qualify. PTSD, ADD, ADHD, insomnia, sleep apnea, Parkinson’s. It’s amazing what we can work with. Any kind of TBI’s, concussion protocols, all of at that. You should be able to get a connective code that would help you get reimbursement.

Glyna: Cool. Steve Johnson is saying good morning!

Heather Davis: Good morning!

Glyna: All right Sarah.

Sarah: All righty. Okay, let me get this banner up here. We want to get all your contact information out to the masses.

Heather Davis: Yay!

Sarah: So, we’re going to, let me get this. I cannot, I have it, I just want to read there-

Glyna: It goes too fast.

Sarah: I know. So we have Heather Davis, Waterstone Counseling. You can email her at or call her directly at 205-206-9633. And their website is This has been amazing. I mean, truly. It’s been, it’s so timely too. I mean, I think we all need a little, our brains are all spinning out of control right now.

Heather Davis: What is up is not always up in 2020.

Glyna: That is so true. I did want to say, I didn’t want to miss Cindy’s question but it kind of went back to enneagrams. Let’s just finish up with that before we, I didn’t want to skip it. She said that “Have you done any assessments or enneagrams for realtors?” Because she is a realtor. And what kinds of things did they show?

Heather Davis: Well, it’s pretty cool if you think about it, but inside of the realty industry there’s a lot of different types of people. There are the people that love to do open houses, the people who want to be with the buyer, they love being on deck, they love it. Then you’ve got folks that go into real estate and they’re like, “You really just want to sit behind a desk and you want to crunch numbers?” In a realty team, there are different roles that need to be filled. And so yeah, it would be great if you were a part of a team and you wanted to see how that’s working, or where it could even be tweaked to allow that team to more, be able to produce. Effectively use their time and the skills that are within the team, that would be awesome. But yeah, there’s not necessarily like all realtors are not threes. Although I know a lot of realtors that are threes, and they’re typically your top producers. Because they set their mind on the goal of the number of houses they’re going to sell, the number of people they’re going to serve, or however. But, they typically need a team that will be able to do the paperwork. Be able to do the contracts, all of those things. So, everybody’s got their strengths. So it’s not like you have to be a three to be a realtor. It’s just there are things that every personality would bring. So, a seven would be an awesome person on a real estate team. They would be able to get anything started for you and make you feel totally at home. And help you to find the house that you love. They also will probably have somebody who does the administration side, who does the follow up. Because seven’s like me, we, no. We don’t like follow up. When I’m with you, you’ve got me. I am like elephant ears. You have 100% of me. But when I walk away, guess what? There’s somebody else. And they have 100% of me. So, that’s the thing. You just have to learn in your team. But yeah, I think realtors would love it. And they do so much personal development, this would be a fun thing for them to do.

Glyna: Yup.

Sarah: Wow, for sure. I’m sitting here thinking, I wonder, hmm, is my husband a seven? Where does he fall?

Heather Davis: We’re usually a lot of fun, and we’re the same person who said yes to bringing home the milk on the way home from work and came home without it.

Sarah: Then yeah, he’s for sure a seven. And then he’ll have a real grand story of like, “Let me tell you what happened?” Like, “Where’s the milk?”

Heather Davis: “I don’t care. Where’s the milk?” And I’m like, “It’s at the store, but you’re not going to believe what just happened to me!”

Sarah: Right. “It was so crazy, I was in here and I ran into so and so, and then we got to talking about this.” And I’m like, “I still need my milk.”

Heather Davis: That probably sounds like a seven.

Sarah: As you said, they all bring something though, so.

Heather Davis: They do, and I think that’s the fun part about what I do is, a lot of times people only hear the negatives in life. They only hear where their weaknesses are.

Glyna: True.

Heather Davis: And even if that’s not all they’ve heard, that’s really all they receive into themselves, is I need to work on this, this, this, this and this. And so, what I like to do is really work on a strength-base. I’m a seven with ADD. That’s funny like a seven doesn’t have it hard enough to finish things, I have ADD. That means, I like to work on 52 things at one time, and then, the flip side of ADD is anxiety. Which means I feel really bad that I’m not getting stuff done, but really not that bad. So, that just happens. When a person learns that that is how you were created, you were made that way. You just weren’t supposed to live in isolation. You need people around you. Because it’s shocking how many times, if I say, “Yeah I love this idea. I just don’t have any bandwidth to do it.” Somebody else will go, “Oh, I bet I could help with that.” And that’s what happens. We aren’t supposed to be by ourselves. It’s all about connection and it’s all about personal development so that we can help others reach their goals too. So, that’s why I think this is really good because it works from a strength-base. I always try to keep on that strength-base. Because if I could just increase my strengths and not play to my weaknesses, that’s going to help me overcome self-sabotage anyway.

Glyna: Absolutely. Yup.

Sarah: Awesome. Okay. We’re going to end this with a nice, quick, fun game called the Hot Seat. So, buckle up Heather.

Kelsi: All right. Let me get her rolling.

Glyna: Get that wheel up there.

Kelsi: So, this wheel, it’s just at random. We’re going to click on it and it’s going to pick which game we’re going to play today.

Heather Davis: Okay!

Glyna: I can’t stand it.

Kelsi: Five second rule.

Glyna: Oh sweet.

Kelsi: We haven’t played this one yet.

Sarah: I feel like you’re the perfect one for this. I really do.

Glyna: I don’t even know what it is, but it sounds fun.

Sarah: Okay. We might have to mute our mics. Okay, so here’s how it works. I’m going to just list off three things and one category and you have five seconds to give me the three things that come to your head. So I’m just going to name a type of something, and then you just give me three for that within five seconds. And if you don’t make the five seconds, then I’m going to, oh boy. This wasn’t on. (beep) I’m going to beep you.

Heather Davis: Point of clarification, is this G rated, PG rated?

Sarah: Oh, it’s G rated. It’s only up to you if you take it further than that.

Heather Davis: Okay, good. But it’s P? PG? Okay.

Glyna: We don’t care.

Sarah: All the questions are, yeah. But it’s fine.

Glyna: We don’t care. You’re good.

Sarah: We don’t have any rules.

Glyna: Do you want-

Sarah: Okay.

Glyna: … 60 seconds, Sarah, or?

Sarah: Yeah, then I’ll just, wait. It’s going to probably go a little bit longer than that. So I’ll do the clock-

Glyna: Okay.

Sarah: … Because I kind of have to stop it each time that she does a question.

Heather Davis: Only me?

Sarah: Do what?

Heather Davis: I’m the only one answering?

Glyna: Yes, we are going to watch.

Heather Davis: Great.

Sarah: Okay. Are you ready?

Heather Davis: I think.

Sarah: Okay. Here we go. Three forms of communication.

Heather Davis: Verbal, non-verbal and social.

Sarah: (beep) Wow, you got it. Okay. Three things you cut.

Heather Davis: Oh, my nails, my hair and the grass.

Sarah: Good job. Three ways to say hello.

Heather Davis: Hey y’all, ciao, and-

Sarah: (beep) Okay, three things you find in the garage.

Heather Davis: Oh, my car. The dog food and the chicken food.

Sarah: (beep) Let you go. Three types of drinks.

Heather Davis: Tequila, vodka and whiskey.

Sarah: Those were the fastest answers you gave. Three sharp objects.

Heather Davis: Oh. A knife, scissors and an ice pick.

Sarah: (beep) An ice pick! Three modes of transportation.

Heather Davis: A car, train and an airplane.

Sarah: Three things that smell bad.

Heather Davis: Oh my gosh. Burning leaves, burnt popcorn and asparagus cooking.

Sarah: (beep) Asparagus cooking, yeah. That’s good. Three fast food restaurants.

Heather Davis: Chick-fil-A, I don’t know. Taco Bell, my kids. And Burger King.

Sarah: (beep) Okay. Three words you shout.

Heather Davis: Don’t start yet, I have to come up with PG.

Sarah: Okay. Three words that you shout now.

Heather Davis: Dang it, shoot, and ruffle feathers.

Sarah: That’s it.

Glyna: You did good.

Kelsi: Heather, how come you didn’t say you shout roll tide?

Heather Davis: Oh, because I don’t think of it as a shout. That’s like a call!

Kelsi: Oh.

Heather Davis: That’s like a call. You know, that’s like a- when I think of shout I think of yelling at somebody, and yeah.

Sarah: Ruffle feathers!

Heather Davis: Actually, that’s not what I say.

Sarah: Oh boy.

Heather Davis: I had to go from authentic brain to inauthentic brain.

Glyna: Well I’ll tell you what, we’ve enjoyed having you so much. I can’t believe the time’s gone by so quickly. But, it was so much great information. So, you can help people, you can help anything it sounds like. So if you have a problem or you just want to figure some stuff out, and reach your goals, Heather’s the person for you to call. And, so thank you so much for being with us today.

Heather Davis: Thank you for asking, it’s been a blast. You have made my Friday off to a great start!

Glyna: That’s so awesome. Well thank you everybody for joining us today. We had such a great time. And don’t forget, our Marketing Mix on Tuesday’s at eight o’clock. And also come back next Friday for our next Biz Talk session at eight o’clock as well. So we will see y’all then.

Heather Davis: Bye!